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Post by Rasengan on Feb 5, 2008 7:04:17 GMT -5
i pickedmike huckabee Hes a christian, he plays bass guitar and chuck norris promotes him good enough
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Post by Sorien on Feb 6, 2008 3:24:58 GMT -5
Darn. I thought this thread was politics not American Politics. lol. I'm just being a nuisance. Dare I throw this out there, but for me, I'm glad that Bush can't get in again. lol. Let's hear the critisism I draw from that ^_^
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Feb 6, 2008 15:10:57 GMT -5
You'd be surprised at how many people actually agree with you, Sorien. And I'm talking about American people, not those of us on the international stage. Some of the people I met also couldn't wait for Bush to get out of office, and almost considered him out of office already.
To be honest, I haven't heard much of the race to the White House since arriving back in New Zealand, which is quite a pity because for the length of my stay I actually found it really intriguing. As a result, I'm not sure about a lot of the candidates' policies.
I remember an intense longing NOT to see Clinton make it to office. As long as she doesn't win, I'll be happy.... but then, if you were to ask me who I'd vote for.... I'm still undecided about that. I believe that, in line with some of the ideas of the candidates above, it is definitely time for change.
However, I also believe that change can only come one step at a time. It has to be done correctly, with a highly detailed, near-infallible plan... or else it drills the country further down the spiral, wasting taxpayer resources, losing popularity with the people... and of course, when the president looks at the clock, realises just how little time they have left in the Oval Office, how little time they have left to make a difference.
But I digress. I'll have to research the politicians and their goals for the United States. As stated, American politics have, for the past month or so, interested me. Perhaps because whoever leads America governs the largest spotlight on the global stage.
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Post by Kiri on Feb 6, 2008 18:21:12 GMT -5
Thankfully, it looks like Obama is going to beat out Hillary in the primaries. I've told many a person this, but seriously... if she was our first woman president... I think I'd just hang myself right then and there. As for Huckabee... I don't know how he's doing. I really liked Giuliani, but he withdrew. >_< Seems like John McCain is winning on the Republican side of things. I don't really know who I want to vote for now. I have to do some research on McCain and Obama's policies. Although my family is republican, I'm actually not one way or the other.... As for Bush... I guess I'm the only person in the world who liked him. Lol. As a president, I didn't like him. He made some bad decisions, but I don't feel qualified to criticize him. If I'd been in his position, I don't know if I would have done any better. As a person, though, I don't see anything wrong with him. I think he's a nice guy, and I don't know why everyone always makes him out to be such an idiot. Whenever I watched him give speeches, he seemed pretty well-spoken and articulate to me.
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Post by Tensei Kaori on Feb 6, 2008 20:05:48 GMT -5
As a person, I have no qualms with President Bush. He's made some bad decisions, but he had a LOT to deal with. Like Kiri said, I doubt I could have done a better job than he did. Still, I will be glad when we get a new President - if only because all this negativity is suffocating.
Currently, my only preference for President is anyone BUT Hillary. I was backing Giuliani, but since he pulled out, I'll have to find someone else for whom to vote. I haven't done much research yet, though, so I can't say who that person is.
And Sorien, I haven't met a single person who's sad to see Bush go. I feel kinda bad for the guy, sentiments against him are so strong.
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strangevisitor
ANBU Squad Leader
Only a man looking for a dream
Posts: 1,754
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Post by strangevisitor on Feb 6, 2008 20:33:25 GMT -5
Bush didn't seem like a bad guy, but he's really screwed the country up fueling his war. We're on the brink of a Recession, and Economic Analysts say it's going to take at least 20 years to get our economy BACK to where it was when Clinton was president.
I'm not really sure why I'm posting here, as I have a strong dislike of politics, I find it a great way to make people you like angry at you >.>
I DO like political humor, though.
"The last time someone listened to a Bush, people wandered around the desert for 40 years."
"Barack Obama. come on people, I can't be the only one who sees it...'BLACK OSAMA' "
Someone at work yesterday bought a Hilary and an Obama bumper sticker from our novelty section "for a joke" she said. I'm still wondering what exactly this joke is.
Anywho, that's my two cents. *puts on SWAT gear*
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Post by Sorien on Feb 6, 2008 22:33:29 GMT -5
See, it's kinda funny here in little NZ, cos we don't have (or get into) politics this much (at least in everyday life type thing). And some people go as far as (as Strangevistor said) buying bumper stickers and T-shirts. lol. There's no way that sorta stuff would ever happen here, and the same goes for supporting a party/person. That's normally hush-hush here really. You keep who you wanna vote for to yourself. At least, that's what I've experienced. Quite the difference huh?
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Post by Kiri on Feb 7, 2008 2:21:07 GMT -5
Lol... 'cause Clinton was such a GOOD president... That's interesting, Sorien. Honestly, there's not really a lot of people in the US that are into politics. Most Americans are too lazy to care about who's in office or bother to vote. The ones who DO like politics though.. they sure raise a clamor. No, I'm not one of those people. >.>;; I just try to make informed decisions. Or will... now that I'm old enough to have a say. ^.^ The thing that bothers me about American politics is the fact we don't even seem to focus on competence at all. Half the time I can't find any good information on the candidates' policies because I have to wade through a load of hearsay and rumors and slander, etc. I don't even remember what the most recent was. Something about Obama being a TERRORIST MUSLIM, ZOMG. Oi. It's too bad the media doesn't really help. My fellow Americans... I'd like to defend you against the world's assumption that you are all morons... but you're not really helping me do that, are you? Lol. MUFFINS FOR PRESIDENT 2008! (In other news, I think it's funny we call ourselves "Americans," considering that kind of encompasses a lot of countries. In Spanish, people from the US are "estadounidense" or "United statesian"! Makes more sense, but doesn't sound good at all in English... maybe also not a coincidence it ends in "dense" ... )
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Feb 7, 2008 6:50:39 GMT -5
Lol, Twinnie. I believe you have the bite America needs to get back on track. I'd vote for you... but unfortunately, my vote is going towards those muffins. Mmm. XD
Strange's point of "Politics bad, people you like find a way to not like you" is a very relevant point. When people start discussing how the country should be, rada rada rada... oh the storms it creates! Well done sir! XD
Speaking of storms... lol
I have to say.... you know what really ticks me off the most? Now, granted, I'm not the biggest fan of Bush, but... Whenever someone brings up the topic of American politics, here in New Zealand... it ALWAYS goes like this. "So what do you think of American politics?" "KICK BUSH OUT OF OFFICE, NOW."
Always like that. I actually HATE it. It's almost instinct... it's almost COOL to be against Bush, but there's very little REAL reasoning or true understanding behind it. Very little emotion behind the opinion. And of all things political, I deplore people who long for his dismissal without good reason -- the response I usually get is "BECAUSE HE'S DUMB". He's not really a bad person. He's just... had some very bad situations come his way, and made some very bad decisions surrounding those situations.
It could be argued that, yes, a better president may have led America to a more 'victorious' scenario. But... some awful things happened during Bush's term. Things that, more than likely, were out of his control... things that regardless of his presidency or not, would've happened anyway. The true question is... how MUCH of a difference would another candidate have made?
You know, in ten years time, when people look back on Bush's 'reign'... there are three events that come to mind. THREE MAIN EVENTS that occurred in his presidential lifetime, little else will we recall. TWO of them were not his fault... and the third one was in response to the first one.
Now, I know little of the truths behind 9/11. I know little of the motives behind it. Whether it's all one big cover up, or whether it was truly a planned assault on the most influential nation in the world today... an attack out of spite. Whether it's a milestone for religious/Islamic freedom, whether it's all a lie just to get some bloodied hands on oil... or whether the intention was to really make the world tremble.... an attack of pure evil.
Nevertheless, I believe 9/11 would've happened anyway, whether Bush had been in power or not. (If anyone can prove me wrong...?) That, in itself, is a monster of unavoidable, unforeseen pressure that no president before could ever have prepared for.
The second event that tested the President occurred in late August 2005. This was, of course, Hurricane Katrina. I don't know what the American people heard or thought... but all we heard was "BUSH BAD." And yes, while his responses to the disaster could've been better... so much had already taken place in America by this time -- all still recovering from the emotional aftermath of 9/11 -- that there was a great deal of pressure there too. Bush had set his pieces in weak formation -- half of the focus was still overseas -- and nature was coming in for the checkmate. War or no war, that hurricane would've hit... And given the game that was on the board, Bush played what (few) moves he did.
The third event that defines Bush is, of course, the remainder of the War on Terror. Of everything that could've been different under another president... this is probably the only one that could've been removed from the board entirely. As Stranger pointed out, I'd say it's only this particular event that has stripped America of its economy and lost favour with the rest of the world. Of all that occurred during Bush's presidency, this is the only event that could've been mitigated in full -- as it was Bush's response to the first event, 9/11.
The other two, however, were inavoidable at best.
Judgement has been passed, and, based on his presidential career... it is widely said that, yeah, Bush wasn't a good president. Maybe he shouldn't have been given his second term. Maybe he shouldn't have been given his first.
But a LOT happened during the seven years he was in office (his eighth doesn't count because we're all focused on who's next!). It was a game he couldn't win.... it was a game few people would've been able to win.
Let's just hope the next candidate has a better hand -- and knows what to do with the cards they're dealt!
----------- EDIT: I'm not saying I hate you Sori-kun! XD I was just thinking about things, and... got on a bit of a roll. lol
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Post by Rasengan on Feb 7, 2008 7:46:32 GMT -5
i think there is no conspiracy around 9/11, other than the one guy that demolished his building during it to claim insurance, i do think that he went to war for the wrong motives though, saying that they had nukes over there when they diddnt. seems like we did some more damage than help but i dont know. saddam need to go down tho. as for oil it looks like we will be switching to ethanol as alternate fuel.
remember when we first started to wage war, the french diddnt agree with it us so america started calling french fries, Freedom fries. freedom fries sounds soo dumb glad it diddnt stay.
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Post by Kiri on Feb 7, 2008 17:04:39 GMT -5
LOL Rasengan. Freedom fries. That was because every American with half a brain went, "I've been calling them FRENCH fries my WHOLE LIFE. Screw that." I really agree with you, Twinnie. It seems to me, in the study of history, whenever something bad happens, it's automatically blamed on the president (usually when he had no control over the situation). Just because America is in a bad state, and the president happens to be the "representative" of America, then of course, he's to blame. For some reason I just imagined Bush in some kind of X-men costume, controlling Katrina with his super-weather powers.... ...that image will forever haunt me.... LOL and Twinnie, I'd prefer the muffins became president rather than me. I don't think we want someone like me in office. XD If they thought Bush was bad, wait 'til they get the Kiri Cabinet! Ugh. The 9/11 Conspiracy stuff just annoys me to death. There are too many people who obviously don't have enough to do, looking for conspiracies where there are none, just so they can say "our government is corrupt!" Yes, our government is corrupt. But that's because it's run by human beings. Unless Jesus shows up to run the USA, I don't think we're ever going to have a government that's not corrupt. Not to mention, even if someone's a good person before getting a position of power... well. What's that saying? "All power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Iiii forgot what else I was going to say. And yeah. With most people, there are two subjects I make it a rule not to discuss unless I know for a fact that they agree with me, or else won't be retards about it if we disagree. One of them is politics. The other is abortion.
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Post by Weezieishness on Feb 7, 2008 21:47:14 GMT -5
In response to what Sorien said about people over here not really being that much into politics, you just haven't talked to the right people. Actually a lot of New Zealanders do follow politics quite closely, and I don't just mean my crazy politics-obsessed family. Lol. In fact, from what I've heard, I would think actually a greater proportion of the overall NZ population follow politics closely than the proportion of the overall American population that do.
As for the American presidency, well I'm definitely glad Bush can't get in for another term, but I don't dislike Bush 'because he's dumb' or 'because everyone hates Bush' or whatever. I just disagree strongly with a lot of his decisions, and a lot of his opinions on things. I think however, this is less a me being against Bush thing, as a me being as far from Republican as you could possibly get. So really for me, I'm just hoping to see the Democrats win the election, and I'm not too worried about who specifically is president.
Out of interest, why don't you guys like Hillary Clinton? I haven't really been following the campaign closely so I don't know much about her.
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Post by Tensei Kaori on Feb 8, 2008 10:41:27 GMT -5
Wow, this has got to be the most intelligent and mature politics discussion I've ever seen. Go us. XD
Anyways, I agree with what Maz, Rasengan, and Kiri have said. There's really not much to add about that, other than I wonder what it'd be like if Saddam were still in power.
Anyways, one reason I dislike Hillary is the power issue. I'm sorry, but I can't trust someone who buys a house in a state JUST so she can become a senator, JUST so she can establish a political identity (outside of her existing one), JUST so she can run for President. Man or woman, I wouldn't vote for anyone who pulled that stunt. It just reeks of a lust for power - or, at least, that's how I see it.
Then there's her policies. I can't remember a lot of what they are, but almost all of them (if not all of the ones I read about) involved spending. And not just any old spending - BIG spending. I'm in the conservative camp about fiscal policy anyways (big government spending = BAD; focus on running the government and leave social programs in the states where they belong), but that's not even counting the HUGE deficit the US Government is facing right now. And the gap is only getting bigger. Right now we need a President who can mitigate the damage as best he (or she, to be fair) can do with wise, controlled spending - and without taxing the American people out of house and home. Now, I'm not one of those crazies who thinks we should pay hardly anything - the government needs money to function, and I'll do my part by paying what taxes I owe - but I've seen homeowner's tax explode here in Florida. Down here we see things on the news and in the paper about people having to choose between having a home and eating. I've seen how bad it can get, which is why I'm hoping the next President won't decide to pay for the deficit entirely out of the taxpayers' pockets.
Anyways, there's just a couple reasons from my point of view: actions speaking of a lust for power, and a "big spending" fiscal policy.
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Post by Kiri on Feb 8, 2008 12:21:32 GMT -5
Well, crap, ya'll are making me break my OTHER rule.
Hillary is pro-choice. She also supports late-term abortion, though only if health or life are at risk. Still, I don't feel I can justify late-term abortion, no matter what. I don't really think she could pass anything on this, but there are a LOT of people who want this... and I do not support it in the least.
She also voted "NO" on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. What the #&$%?
I don't even know how she stands on gay rights because she's flip-flopped so many times on the issue. First she said she supported the "don't ask, don't tell law," then she turned right around and said soldiers should have to "shoot straight, not be straight."
Her education reform ideas are alright, but they're not enough, and I don't think they're going to do anything other than waste money.
She also likes GUN CONTROL! I really would like to be OUT of TX by the time that law gets enstated. I mean. I can just imagine the people in cowboy hats rioting in the streets with their big cowboy boots and ginormous trucks....
Oh yes. She also said she "owes the opportunity of presidency to generations of women." For some reason, that just... really... irritates me.
Other than that... eh. I think she's a crazy feminist, and I agree with K-chan on both the "lust for power" thing and "too much spending." While a national debt isn't exactly a bad thing (really, the US's nat'l debt is considered pretty small compared to some... mind-blowing, I know) ... I think the problem is that our spending is out of control, and like Strange said, the war is killing our economy.
Which is... fun. Considering WWII brought us out of the Great Depression. I'm not sure what's so different about this one... other than it's not really ... working. STUPID FOREIGN POLICY. Dear GOD I HATE our foreign policy... >.>;;
But yeah. That's why I hate Hillary. XD
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strangevisitor
ANBU Squad Leader
Only a man looking for a dream
Posts: 1,754
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Post by strangevisitor on Feb 8, 2008 16:40:50 GMT -5
Yeah, those are definitely some good reasons not to like Hilary. Like I said, I don't follow politicians and their policies too closely..because lately it's like trying to pick the lesser of two evils. Seems like all most canidates want is the power and the golden security of being president. Salary and Secret Service protection for life? No wonder we're in debt.
Also..I dunno what to say about WWII bringing us out of the GD. Better planning? Maybe because it was a war that actually meant something, other than obtaining red oil?
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