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Post by Sorien on Jan 9, 2008 23:05:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm contemplating coming back with the expansion pack too, but I think I'd only get addicted again, so I might avoid it all together. At the end of it all, I had a 70 mage, pally and warrior. Mage was pretty well geared, pally; so-so and warrior so-so. On Daggerspine. If I added all of my /played (overall game time on the game) I'd played 147 days over all 3 characters. Jeepers. Glad I got a life XP
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Feb 1, 2008 14:35:13 GMT -5
BLIZZARD LORE SUCKS.
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Post by Rasengan on Feb 1, 2008 20:05:37 GMT -5
yea they change there lore to meet there needs instead of going by it, like they did for bloodelf pallys and draeni shaman
draeni should be horde blefs to alliance
ive been wow free for a month
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Feb 2, 2008 0:35:45 GMT -5
You know, it probably would make more sense for the Draenei to be Horde and the Blood Elves to be Alliance. The Blood Elves would just become High Elves again... and the Draenei, being from Draenor, MIGHT find something in common with the Orcs.
But NO... they had to screw up everything by releasing The Burning Crusade.
I have to admit, I lost faith in the game when BC came out. The main problems I have with it are...
1) Introducing a third Eredar who, for the record, didn't even EXIST until Burning Crusade - Velen appeared COMPLETELY out of nowhere... in fact, they UNWROTE the Archimonde/Kil'jaeden Eredar storyline JUST to accommodate Velen. 2) Introducing the Draenei as playable, when they were only a weakling race in the Frozen Throne expansion pack (WITHOUT squids on their faces), a minor footnote in lore history 3) Shifting the storyline from battling the Scourge to battling the Burning Legion - more on this as a bad thing later! 4) Adding the Battle for Mount Hyjal as an instance, with no real reason for it other than it's the Battle of Mount Hyjal 5) Allowing the Twin Blades of Azzinoth to drop - regardless of its rarity and drop rate, nobody should ever be cool enough to wield the second coolest weapon in Warcraft lore, apart from Illidan Stormrage 6) Planning to introduce Arthas THIS EARLY in the storyline... as a KILLABLE boss. Arthas deserves for you to appear later... next expansion, I'd say. Level 90, back to 40-man raid FTW! LET IT BE KNOWN THAT ARTHAS IS GOD.
Now, before I hear you say "But the Burning Legion are the TRUE bad guys of Warcraft! We SHOULD be fighting them instead of the Scourge!".... what was the last content patch that came out before The Burning Crusade? Anyone remember?
Shadow of the Necropolis. Not that stupid war one which revamped the Honor system and introduced "World PvP" - that was more of a GAMEPLAY patch, not a content patch. It was Shadow of the Necropolis. The Scourge. Kel'Thuzad. He was the next chapter in your WoW life, your next trophy. Defending Azeroth from the overwhelming Undead might, defeating the Scourge as they invaded, taking the fight into the heart of Naxxramas which all culminated in a showdown against the right-hand man of the Lich King himself... it prepared you for the great fight against the Scourge!
After that, though, they shifted the scene to Outland. Nothing happened with the Scourge storyline that they had just gotten you excited about! They threw Illidan on a movie screen and hoped you wanted that instead. Great planning, Blizzard!
One of the most frustrating things, however, is not following up on any of the old storylines they had established in the original World of Warcraft (pre-BC). To my knowledge, the following storylines still haven't been completed. a) Ahn'Qiraj and Fandral Staghelm. Is he still angry? Is he still a whining emo even after you defeat all of the Silithid? b) The Ashbringer. This has been planned for the game for how long? Numerous questlines all drafted and not followed up on.... in fact, none of them were even followed up on in Burning Crusade, were they? Mograine's second son, Prince Tortheldrin, Nat Pagle... c) The World Dragons. You know, the ones in Darkshire, The Hinterlands, and the other two places I can't remember. They were guarding portals. Portals you wanted to go into... portals we thought we'd see the other side of sometime soon. d) The corruption of Teldrassil. This questline led you all the way to the battle against a corrupted Shade of Eranikus in the Swamp of Sorrows... and then stopped. There was a point later that Malfurion was busy in the Emerald Dream fighting the Nightmare... but then, they STOPPED. They didn't even elaborate or remotely discuss Malfurion.
The story had its moments. The Stormwind storyline, in its fullest, was actually one of the best coming together of any game I've ever seen - starting right from when you begin the game, you take on the Defias Brotherhood, trail into the Deadmines to defeat their leader, continue through the Stockades, and discover information that links the Defias Brotherhood to the missing King of Stormwind... and if I remember rightly, points the finger at Lady Katrana Prestor! The storyline then picked up again 20 levels later while in the Burning Steppes, in which you enter Blackrock Spire -- fabled in itself -- and battle the Black Dragonflight, who were being led by none other than Lady Prestor... also known as Onyxia. The storyline even continued on through the end-game content as you traversed the highest reaches of Blackrock Spire to take on her brother, Nefarian... who until the Scourge appeared, was the mightiest boss of the game.
In fact, even the Zul'Gurub storyline was well-crafted. A storyline starting from the moment you land in Tanaris as a level 40... Yel'kinya, who recounted the legend of Hakkar the Blood God, who must be destroyed. Yel'kinya, who sends you on quests all over the world... to find the tablets of the story of the Blood God, and to contain his essence from within the Temple of Atal'Hakkar. Yel'kinya, who only reveals as you complete all the tasks for him, you were aiding him to awaken the Soulflayer. The story picked up again moments later, finding the last of the Tablets of Mosh'aru deep within Blackrock Spire... that the battle would now take you to Zul'Gurub, against the Blood God himself.
And though the storyline only started from halfway through the game... it gave you REASON to go to ZG. You had REASON to take on Nefarian in Blackwing Lair -- because the ENTIRE game up to that point had focused on it.
And then the Scourge appeared! We'd been waiting since the end of TFT for the return of the Scourge. AND THEY WERE COMING TO DESTROY AZEROTH. They'd invade the main cities... the fight was in your face, the world was in danger! Zombies and ghouls running around Stormwind. Take the fight to them... take the fight to Kel'Thuzad! It got you PUMPED.
The seeds for great storylines had been planted the world over, the majority of them all starting before level 40, and continuing right until end-game. The one that really only appeared right at the end of your game was Molten Core -- which really was little more than a side story to get you to begin the tedious task of raiding anyway.
Since these moments of perfection, not only in terms of lore but in terms of how the entire game comes together -- that there really is a purpose to all of the raiding... what's happened since then? They've built the rest of the game on hype. FIGHT ILLIDAN. FIGHT IN THE BATTLE OF MOUNT HYJAL. FIGHT ARTHAS.... how about FIGHT UR FACE?
I can see (or speculate) where the storyline is headed now.... with Malygos being the second antagonist of Wrath of the Lich King -- next to Arthas -- Blizzard could now be aiming for making the Dragon Aspects a larger part of the story. You can just see it. Malygos' death... the eventual return of Neltharion (which, in the next expansion after WotLK, I'm willing to bet is going to be the final boss). But in all seriousness, wouldn't the return of Deathwing (or at least attempted return of Deathwing) have made more sense as a final chapter to the Black Dragonflight storyline that, let's be honest here, ended with Nefarian? Now that they've introduced the Burning legion, should we not be focused on fighting them?
....and what exactly are the consequences of defeating the Scourge? Once you defeat Arthas... what happens to all the Undead in the Plaguelands? Without their master, do they just... roll over and die (again)? What about the Forsaken? After the death of Ner'zhul... does that not free the will and bodies of ONE OF THE MAIN PLAYABLE RACES OF THE GAME?! With Arthas dead... does the Undead option disappear from your Create-a-Character screen? WELL IT FRICKING SHOULD!
And now they wanna make a progression in the fight against the Burning Legion... before taking the fight back to the Scourge? To build the rest of what was once a fantastic game and leave that which excites us most to nothing more than hype over a story long ruined and long forgotten? Beh. No thanks.
...
Grats on the WoW-free, though! lol.
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Post by Rasengan on Feb 2, 2008 8:18:47 GMT -5
i completely agree, BC ruined wow messing with lore, Making epics soooo easy to get that epics are like uncommons, before BC epics were so rare and were awesome, and when u saw someone with full epics you were like wow they are awesoem. but in bc everyone has epics, everyone is same you dont feel accomplished to get one cuz everyone has one. remember before bc in zg you go in with 20 people kill a boss and he will drop at least one epic, 2 if your lucky, and a few blues. In BC you can go through karazhan with 10 people kill a boss, which are alot easier than zg bosses were, and are guarteeed 2 epics at least, making epics about as special as any other armor. Imo kara should have been 20 man at least. the new 25 mans should be 40.
another problem with Bc is how outland is completely separate from azeroth, so a lower density of players, which is good sometimes but it gets really boring, no more lowbies walking around kinda sad.
ive been up all night my brain cant work
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Feb 2, 2008 21:27:35 GMT -5
Yeah. Blizzard believe that giving people easy purples would fix the issue and keep people playing the game because "It's easier to play our game now! It's easier to progress!"
I believe this was because of the random factor as generated when taking on the bosses. Guilds would battle for hours for one piece of gear that MAY drop. Members would hoard their DKP until aforementioned 4% drop rate item did, in fact, drop. There was a factor of luck... and if you didn't get it, you had to wait another week or so to get it. It meant something when you finally got your hands on it.
Now, as you say... it's easier to get epics, due to one factor basically running the game now - time. Every raid, every battle... there's a chance for EVERYONE to get something. All it takes... is time. But they've removed the luck factor. I believe it's an attempt to allow casual gamers to try and keep up with the hardcore gamers. A system that benefiits the weaker by taking from the strong.
Not everyone has time to play WoW, and Blizzard are trying to cater to that. After all, the more casuals that are happy, the more they want to keep playing, and the more game cards they sell.
There are some instances that should've stayed 40-man. The Black Temple should've been 40. The Battle of Mount Hyjal should've been 40. Icecrown Citadel should be 40. The Nexus, home of Malygos... should be 40. And even if the reason for 25 mans is because it's easier to organise 25 people than 40... there are just some battles that NEED to be epic. When you take on one of the powerhouses of the entire Warcraft universe... regardless of the organisation and the lag that comes with it, that feeling is important. And it's a feeling that can't be replicated with only 25 people.
I can only imagine what Wrath of the Lich King is going to do to further divide the population of Azeroth.... FOUR CONTINENTS NOW. LOL.
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Post by Sorien on Feb 3, 2008 15:43:15 GMT -5
Heh. I completely agree with everything said here. Particularly about them epics. What exactly is epic about getting some materials together and sewing. Yes, SEWING an item into an epic. But as for the Lore, my setiments exactly. I just didn't have the time to go into all those details.
Meh. WoW free ftw. Haven't thought about it in a while actually. lol.
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Aug 27, 2008 4:26:06 GMT -5
Trailers for this have me hyped. Not that I'll be buying it anyway. XD
I've recently downloaded the cinematic trailer for Wrath of the Lich King - in glorious high-definition too, man it looks good on the big TV. XD
The lore has been ruined even further after numerous revelations have come to light during the beta phase of the game... sigh.
Furthermore, they're allowing some of the instances (yes, Icecrown Glacier included) to be run as 10-man, with an upped difficulty level compared to the 25-man versions - kinda like the Heroic versions.
WTF. You're going to 10-man Arthas Menethil? The GOD of World of Warcraft? I understand the difficulties with a large group taking him on (40 connections to lag and have things go wrong)... but if there's anything the Lich King deserves in our quest to wield Frostmourne, it's a war!
10 players + Arthas = mini-gank, not worth our time 25 players + Arthas = a half organised mob, mildly passable as a minimum 40 players + Arthas = the epic battle for Azeroth Ner'zhul (and we as players) deserve!
As before said, the cinematic trailer gets me pumped for the game. To be honest, I'd actually be kinda happy to serve under Arthas as one of the Scourge. There's just something about his line from the previous trailer of "...all must serve the one true king" that sends chills down my spine and makes me wanna go break some Alliance/Horde faces. XD
And the new trailer looks very pretty. If there's anything Blizzard definitely know how to do, it's make cinematics. Sorien, if you haven't already seen it, you need to come over and watch it on the big screen... XD
LONG LIVE THE KING.
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Post by Sorien on Aug 27, 2008 4:49:16 GMT -5
Ahh. So that's what the text was about XD. I wondered what you had in store for me.
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Post by Rasengan on Aug 28, 2008 20:10:39 GMT -5
i just renewed yesterday and i regret it, its not fun at 70 prolly going to lvl a new character
But i am looking forward to expansion, the pvp zone lake wintergrasp looks awesome
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Sept 2, 2008 1:54:38 GMT -5
Mmm, perhaps.
It almost makes me wonder what it's like on a PvE server though... oh the days of Stranglethorn Vale.
I just want to see everyone go through the grueling climb of Icecrown Glacier to reach the top where the Lich King awaits... only for Arthas to knock everyone off the top of it in one swift raid-killing move.
Now THERE'S a video I want to see on YouTube.
Am a bit gutted that Anub'arak is only a lesser boss. He's not even in one of the level 80 dungeons - I think he's in one of the level 72-74 dungeons, in Azjol-Nerub.
Mind you, I suppose that's how they dealt a blow to The Burning Crusade - with Lady Vashj in one dungeon, Prince Kael'thas in another dungeon, and Illidan Stormrage in his own instance too. Man, imagine the epic feeling of fighting the three of them! It could be like The Four Horsemen... only twice as aggravating, three times as unfair, and four times as satisfying when you come out on top.
I'd like to think that attunement to Icecrown Glacier at the VERY LEAST requires the defeat of Anub'arak, Kel'thuzad and Sapphiron (who you have to beat to get to Kel'Thuzad anyway). This attunement should NEVER be removed (unlike that Black Temple and Mount Hyjal attunement which was really cool and full-on achievements to the max BUT were eventually removed). There SHOULD be a progression of having to beat Azjol-Nerub and Naxxramas before taking on Icecrown Citadel.
Mind you, I guess that means there needs to be incentives for people who've already done the attunement... but then that's what the fabled 'account attunement' is for, isn't it...? Or perhaps that guild attunement thing that sounds oh-so-cheap. :-\
Still has to be a way to balance 'letting you experience the content' and 'making you experience the content', know what I mean? How meaningless was it going to Blackwing Lair or Temple of Ahn-Qiraj without the quests, or a real feeling as to what the story involves or what brings you there? Yes, there should be an easier way of experiencing all the new content... but the answer is most definitely not "letting whoever wants in want in". Earn your content. >_<
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Post by Rasengan on Sept 2, 2008 2:36:26 GMT -5
lake wintergrasp is a pvp zone on all servers i think
im thinking the arthas fight will be alot like illidan in the way that the warden came and killed him at the end of the fight. but with arthas being sylvanas instead of the warden
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Sept 2, 2008 4:04:35 GMT -5
Lake Wintergrasp is PvP on all servers, even the PvE ones, yes. The server I played on was a PvP one anyway, so there was full on gankage no matter where you were. lol. I thought the same myself in regards to an NPC making an entrance, actually. Some possibilities spoileriffic, others not quite so... XD * Turalyon - Turalyon might long to finish his quest to stop Ner'zhul, the Lich King, once and for all. * Jaina Proudmoore - She might show up to stop Arthas, or even try to bring him back to his senses. * Sylvanas Windrunner - holds a grudge against the Lich King for turning her undead. * Muradin Bronzebeard - he has been confirmed as not being dead. He might become a figure much like Akama was in Burning Crusade. * Tirion Fordring - though he more than likely has a role in the Ashbringer quest, it wouldn't surprise me if the leader of the Argent Crusade shows up to lay the holy smackdown on Arthas. * Alleria Windrunner - not very likely, but if Turalyon or Sylvanas show up, Alleria has got to be around somewhere... right?
Wrath of the Lich King scares me quite a bit, because now humans are messing with the larger story. As I'd anticipated, the remaining lore only half focuses on the battle against the Scourge. With the battle against Malygos within the Nexus... the Dragon Aspects most definitely will play a bigger part in the story. Apparently, Alexstrasza will aid in the battle against Malygos. Furthermore, emissaries from the other dragonflights are present in the Dragonblight, one of the sections of Northrend which has always interested me since it cropped up on the map in Warcraft III. Apparently, Malygos is actually going to be killed... which means killing one of the DRAGON ASPECTS. WTF. THEY MIGHT AS WELL KILL JESUS. On top of all that, they're going to progress with the Infinite Dragonflight storyline (of course)... so while some of the game seems to be about the Scourge... they're aiming for the Dragon Aspect/Titan mythology/Burning Legion again too. So perhaps they'll actually have a different end-boss - just as Illidan the Betrayer is NOT the final boss of the Burning Crusade, Arthas Menethil may not be the final boss of Wrath of the Lich King. Know what I mean? Though hopefully they won't do that. 'Cos really... the entire goal of Wrath of the Lich King is to defeat Arthas. Amirite?
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Post by Tensei Kaori on Sept 5, 2008 19:56:21 GMT -5
So I know next to nothing about Warcraft Lore. WoWWiki is helping that somewhat, but I've still got a long way to go. So excuse me if the only things I understood about the posts on this page were ranting about epic items and something about PvP zones. XD As a random side note, does anyone know if the Warcraft/WoW books are any good? I heard good things about them from someone, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions before investing another hundred dollars or so into my personal library.
Anyways, if you haven't already heard, it's true: I've been converted to WoW. XD Many thanks to Tenny for sponsoring my account. So for any of you all going active again, consider hopping over to the Aggramar server and saying hi! I play a Night Elf Druid (which rocks, btw). Drop me a line via PM or whatever if you want to know character name details, etc.
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Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Sept 6, 2008 3:41:59 GMT -5
Lol. The best way to get into Warcraft lore is to find someone that has a copy of Warcraft III and its expansion, The Frozen Throne. The meat of the World of Warcraft storyline is built from Warcraft III and TFT. Sure, Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness is a bit of a help, but some subjects on WoWWiki cover all that storyline quite nicely (there might be a topic about the Second War, or you could read about Anduin Lothar, the Dark Portal and Medivh and that should set you up nicely)... so WC3 is the place to begin. PvP zones... walk into Southshore and type /pvp. You'll see what I mean very quickly. XD The books... I dunno. It depends, they might be good for a read, but if you're looking for some serious Blizzard lore in them... give up hope. Blizzard have no idea what they're doing with their lore... XD I've heard that the War of the Ancients trilogy is a good read, but I can't verify it myself, being the heretic I am. It always fills me with some sort of guilty joy when I'm reminded you play WoW. LOL. Whenever it is that I go active, I'll play on Aggramar, 'kk? I could probably get a WoW-capable computer for cheap now... but I like saving my money, and am somewhat addicted to my miserly ways. However, if I find that it runs nicely on my PlayStation 3.... LOL.
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