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Sasuke
Mar 2, 2005 18:28:20 GMT -5
Post by Kiel on Mar 2, 2005 18:28:20 GMT -5
Alrighty then,
I rarely get serious, but I want to try to have a semi-serious discussion about Uchiha Sasuke, or rather, his choice to leave Konoha.
Does anybody here like Sasuke as a person?
I think I understand why he's going to the lengths that he is to attain power. It's a matter of self sacrifice.
It's not that Sasuke hates Naruto or the Leaf. He just feels that emotional ties will only hold him back.
...and, well...he's right.
To achieve his ambition, he'll have to sacrifice everything he loves in order to obtain it.
Any other ideas or comments?
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Sasuke
Mar 4, 2005 20:50:34 GMT -5
Post by Kiri on Mar 4, 2005 20:50:34 GMT -5
I really don't like Sasuke. For a while there, he was alright, but I completely disagree with some of the choices he's made recently. They piss me off. I know he's not saying he hates anyone (Naruto, Sakura).
Kakashi tried to give him advice, but he was too hard-headed to take it, and now he's going to get Konoha in sh*tload of trouble. He's selfish, obsessive, and cares about no one but himself. He's definitely not the only person in Konoha who has suffered loss, yet he acts as if he's some hero in a tragedy.
I also really dislike the attitude he's adopted towards Naruto. He's become quite arrogant. Maybe it's a guy thing. I just find it kind of unbecoming how he acts like he's better than Naruto.
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Hatake Hiroshi
Lieutenant Hokage
Konoha's #1 Hunter-nin
Beat me brother, with a solid four!
Posts: 1,194
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Sasuke
Mar 4, 2005 21:09:24 GMT -5
Post by Hatake Hiroshi on Mar 4, 2005 21:09:24 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't like Sasuke...He's an arrogant, egotistic, self-righteous, chauvnist pig...Sounds like someone I know...Hmm...I wonder if they're related....Anywho... I hate him even more for leaving Konoha. He's just to self-absorbed! The world does not revolve around him...jerk...I think it was pretty stupid to leave the village just for the sake of gaining power for himself. He needs to get over himself...
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Sasuke
Mar 5, 2005 13:43:47 GMT -5
Post by Tensei Kaori on Mar 5, 2005 13:43:47 GMT -5
I agree with Kiri and Hiroshi. He's a spoiled little snit who thinks he's all that just because he's an Uchiha and everyone calls him a genius, and because of his clan's murder. Come ON, it's not like he's the only one who's gone through loss. I was actually starting to feel kinda sorry for him, even like him a little, until I read chapter 229. What he said to Naruto..... if you've read it, you understand.
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Sasuke
Mar 6, 2005 0:22:10 GMT -5
Post by Kiel on Mar 6, 2005 0:22:10 GMT -5
Now...did he actually mean all of that?
huh?
Just for a moment, think that you know you must kill your best friend.
Tough decession, no?
OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T KILL YOUR FREAKIN FRIEND!
But, alas, Sasuke must.
In order to awaken the Mengyakou (spelling = bad) Sharingan, he has to defeat Naruto.
His...best...friend.
Now, wouldn't it be easier if you can convince that friend to hate you? To make your friend fight you? To trample on all that friend thought in you?
I believe this is what Sasuke is doing...or at least, I hope.
The look on his face as he sees (or thinks he sees) Naruto dead. It looks sad...as if it's something overwelming that he's done.
regret?
Maybe. Probably not.
I dunno, just rambling.
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Sasuke
Mar 6, 2005 19:02:35 GMT -5
Post by SeraphMazrakiel on Mar 6, 2005 19:02:35 GMT -5
I don't really have anything useful to add to the matter. Just that I don't really mind Sasuke.
Maybe it's a guy thing. XD
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Sasuke
Mar 6, 2005 22:02:49 GMT -5
Post by Kiel on Mar 6, 2005 22:02:49 GMT -5
Hey yeah,
I've noticed that guys do tend to be a little more sympathetic towards ol' bucket head.
Could it possibly be related to how he treats Sakura that peeves girls so much? Or all of his "friends" for that matter?
Do guys relate more to him on some odd coming of age angst-type relation?
I just didn't want to take all of his actions at face value. Interpretation is everything.
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Sasuke
Mar 6, 2005 22:22:29 GMT -5
Post by Tensei Kaori on Mar 6, 2005 22:22:29 GMT -5
Sasuke = messed up. That's the only way to put it. He suffers from Gaara Syndrome. Go through alot of pain and misery.....and then go psycho. Of course, his is a different kind of psycho, but he's still severely messed up. ( ) Please note that I'm not changing my stance on what I said earlier.
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Hatake Hiroshi
Lieutenant Hokage
Konoha's #1 Hunter-nin
Beat me brother, with a solid four!
Posts: 1,194
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Sasuke
Mar 6, 2005 22:45:34 GMT -5
Post by Hatake Hiroshi on Mar 6, 2005 22:45:34 GMT -5
Sasuke is messes up! But if you think about it, a lot of stuff has happened to him...I mean, the rest of the Uchiha clan is dead, killed by his own brother, which I'm sure is probably incredibly scarring. Growing up without a father or mother probably hasn't helped him either...Lots of psycological stuffs happenin' in his puny little mind! But he's still a jerk...He has so common sense...at all...
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Sasuke
Mar 6, 2005 22:55:33 GMT -5
Post by Kiel on Mar 6, 2005 22:55:33 GMT -5
I'm glad you stand by your convictions Kaori. They're solid ones.
It's hard to argue that Sasuke isn't messed up. But I don't think the comparison to Gaara is completely sound.
Although...they do have a lot in common...hmmm...nope, still different. Gaara hates the world (or he did). Sasuke simply hates one man. He just doesn't care about anyone else...or so we're lead to believe.
Sasuke isn't as heartless as he seems.
His last words to Sakura were "thank you". I'm assuming he was thanking her for caring about him, whether he accepted it or not.
He does acknowledge Naruto as being his best friend and an equal ninja (in their final confrontation). The reason he continues to fight is to become a stronger fighter.
He knows he has two paths:
To stay with his friends, to find new meaing to his existence and to move on and away from his former ambitions. To live life comfortabely and happy.
Or, to leave and seek out his brother and finally fulfill his goal. To take revenge for his clan and his family. To go to one side of evil to conquer another.
Sasuke chooses the latter because he knows that as long as he's alive, so will Itachi. He knows that if he lets go of his ambition, he'll regret it more than anything. He knows he'll never achieve the same level of strength in Konoha as he could in the Oto-gakure, under Orochimaru.
In order to achieve certain goals, sacrifices must be made.
It's just too bad Sasuke must sacrifice some of the things he holds most dear.
Sasuke doesn't hate Naruto, Sakura or any of the others. If he did, he would never have acknowledged Naruto and attaining the next level of Sharingan would be impossible.
Personnaly, I feel kinda sorry for the guy.
Not because his clan was wiped out, but because of what he has to let go in order to achieve his ideal of "power".
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Sasuke
Mar 7, 2005 0:01:04 GMT -5
Post by Tensei Kaori on Mar 7, 2005 0:01:04 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from, but all I meant as far as "Gaara Syndrome" was the fact that he had a bunch of awful stuff happen to him, he had a very unpleasant (to say the least) childhood through no fault of his own (though he coulda done something about it), and as a result he went completely psycho. It's just that Gaara chose the psychopathic killer route, while Sasuke chose the "sell my soul to the devil" kind of psycho. It's a very general comparison, not involving much detail.
And even though he did have all that stuff happen to him, he has no reason to do what he did. If Gaara and Naruto can become strong through other means, then so can Sasuke. It's not like Orochimaru is his ONLY option, it's that he's the easiest option. Don't work for power, have it thrown at you.
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Sasuke
Mar 7, 2005 12:07:10 GMT -5
Post by Kiel on Mar 7, 2005 12:07:10 GMT -5
The easiest option?
Orochimaru?
Um...I suppose...but I think staying in Konoha and um...not having to sell your soul is easier.
In terms of brilliant and powerful teachers, who better than the Sanins?
Each of our budding ninjas now each has their own Sanin-sensei.
Sasuke simply chooses the one he feels he has the most to gain from.
I mean, only one of the three can advance and train him under the curse seal.
Whether he realizes it or not, he had no choice in the long run. Only Orochimaru could really further his progression in combat with the curse seal.
Like the other sound ninjas, given your ideals and goals, the curse seal is a gift.
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Sasuke
Mar 7, 2005 18:54:33 GMT -5
Post by Tensei Kaori on Mar 7, 2005 18:54:33 GMT -5
He doesn't need the curse seal though. He could have chosen to live with it, to control it - much like Anko did - and gain strength on his own. With Orochimaru, all he has to go to Sound village and power is practically laid at his feet on a silver platter. Yeah, it's work to learn how to control it, but it's not really the same. Naruto and Sakura, for example, work hard with their own talents and abilities (I'm counting kyuubi as one of Naruto's abilities here) and don't rely on what someone just hands to them.
Also, remember what Kakashi said to Sasuke during Chidori training: "If you give in to hatred and rely on the power of the curse seal, you will cease to grow and develop. And then you will never be able to kill Itachi."
Once Sasuke masters the curse seal, that's prety much it. He can't grow any more, unless a Level Three is brought on the scene, which I doubt will happen. Itachi, however, is free to grow as much as he pleases. Though I doubt training and getting stronger is really Itachi's primary goal, it's still there for him. Sasuke is now prisoner to Orochimaru and is pretty much stuck at his current level, plus any knowlege and experience he'll gain under Orochimaru's tutelage.
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Sasuke
Mar 7, 2005 19:41:42 GMT -5
Post by Kiel on Mar 7, 2005 19:41:42 GMT -5
Growth isn't all Sasuke cares about tho.
Sure...it's a huge part of his goal. But it's the means, not the end.
The end is still to kill Itachi.
Orochimaru will inhabit Sasuke and use him as his successor/host. Sasuke knows this and is willing to sacrifice his physical self in order to gain Orochimaru's strength.
Once Orochimaru has killed Itachi, whatever he does afterwars is...well, pretty much no concern of sasuke's.
hmmm...maybe you've got a point their Kaori.
Is submission to Orochimaru the easy way out?
...yeah, I guess.
Either way, you know there's got to be a level 3 curse seal. No way would there not be something more powerful.
Orochimaru would definitely have that kinda card up his sleeve.
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Tensei Kaori
Hokage
Konoha's #1 Henge Master
Taking over the world, one bishie at a time...
Posts: 7,888
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Sasuke
Mar 7, 2005 21:29:15 GMT -5
Post by Tensei Kaori on Mar 7, 2005 21:29:15 GMT -5
Growth may not be the final end, but he has to get way stronger if he wants to kill Itachi. Since the Cursed Seal puts a stop to one's getting stronger, relying on Orochimaru may not give Sasuke enough of an edge to kill Itachi.
Watch Naruto kill Itachi before Sasuke can get to him.
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